Author Topic: Please message me if you need help  (Read 22 times)

TromFan

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Please message me if you need help
« on: June 12, 2019, 12:00:45 am »
Whether you are an Ex-Scientologist or a total TROM newbie, if you are having trouble understanding any of the theory or practice of TROM, please message me.
I have been Scientology auditor trained, am a former course supervisor and Church of Scientology staff trained.  I have read the TROM materials to death and am currently running level five on myself.
I am also currently working on more ways to make the TROM materials understandable for the masses.
The TROM materials can be overwhelming at first, they were even for me not just because of the way they are currently compiled, but also I had to get past my own reservations about practicing something other than Scientology.
I want to help, and I want to get a feel individual to individual of some of the questions and difficulties others are having.
Best,
TromFan

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Karalee

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 08:11:35 am »
Hello, TromFan and welcome to the forum.  I appreciate your skill level with Scientology and with Trom.  Yes, I do see that TROM, being too simple for complicated and distractable minds, could use a good undercut. 

For example, one of the best undercuts that was presented to me in Scientology was the Purif and the "Clear Body, Clear Mind" book, expounding the values of de-toxing the body before entering a course of mind clearing. This was also an ancient practice before starting a course or mission.

Also, I can see if a Scientologist is doing a deeper Conditions by Dynamics and is in awareness level of "confusion" on the first dynamic - mind, body and possessions - to grasp the fundamental simplicity of trom and its practices helps one take a stand and be able to sort out dire confusion re their own mind.

TromFan

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 10:52:24 am »
"I do see that TROM, being too simple for complicated and distractable minds, could use a good undercut. "

That's not really it.  If you look at the glossary for the currently published works, there are 10 words defined.  One of them, "anaten" doesn't even appear in the first book TROM a Games Manual. If you look at the glossary on this forum, there are way way more terms, all of them appearing in just that one work defined. The Postulate Failure Chart is introduced way too soon. It's a ton of significance to absorb at once.

Anyone familiar with the study tech can plainly see that the current presentation of the TROM materials hits the student with a ton of misunderstood words, lack of mass and too steep a gradient.  It has nothing to do with whether or not the person has a complicated and/or distractable mind.

Karalee

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 12:09:19 pm »
What you say indicates to me because in the Church I kept wanting to doze off while reading Dianetics until I finally got through the Div 6 Dianetics course and was allowed then to audit a few people.  What an awesome experience

I'm currently handling a nervous system and endocrine system condition with de-toxing protocols, and assigned a confusion condition to this mind/body/critters complex. As soon as that gets resolved and the mental fog gone I will re-visit trom with greater and sustainable resolve, and clear up any conceptual mis-understandings. 

I do however get a kick out of doing RI every day.  In the meantime I take to heart Dennis' advice to get to know this body intimately and work towards being more complementary with its basic biochemistry and anatomy and social urges.

BTW, have you done any clay demos re TROM?  Would you recommend any clay demos?


TromFan

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 01:52:05 pm »
I have not done any clay demos.  I guess the demo was my doing the levels, so to speak.
But I made sure to look up every word, and also read and re-read until I found the right gradient to enter at, then once I grasped it the rest made sense.
For example, I did not understand how level five runs until I read that transcript of Dennis showing the first four commands step by step.  Oddly, that is at the very end of the currently Amazon-published work. I believe it should have been sooner in the text.  But it's in TROM for Non-Scientologists.  I believe that is the entry gradient for level five.

mjh

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 03:23:17 pm »
I did not understand how level five runs until I read that transcript of Dennis showing the first four commands step by step.

TromFan can you direct my attention to this section in the original materials please?

TromFan

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Re: Please message me if you need help
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 09:50:31 pm »
The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.

How to Run Level 5A

"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be present time physical universe space. It can be past physical universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of "Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must Know" postulate.

Postulate Failure Chart
 
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them, timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's "Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between 1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known" against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known" into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A.  He now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and "Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:52:26 pm by TromFan »