Author Topic: Questions about TROM  (Read 226 times)

argent

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Questions about TROM
« on: April 07, 2015, 07:43:35 pm »
I have confusion about RI! RI is "Bring something into existence" then "Have another bring something into existence." What does this mean, exactly? Does it mean to think up something important, or invent something, or just think of anything I want, and then in part B have someone else do the same thing?

Level 5: What exactly is done with this level? I can't quite 'get' what should be 'done' with the chart. Can anyone explain more clearly? I'm glad to have found a place where people are talking about TROM...the Time Breaking technique alone has been invaluable.

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Gone Fabian

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 11:29:16 pm »
Hi, this is how I do it:

I just invent something in my mind, something that has some (maybe slight) importance.
Also, I just invent a situation where someone else does kind of the same thing.

It's been some time since I looked at Level 5 (I'm doing a lower level).
I might take a look and come back to you if nobody else chimes in.
Not much traffic here right now   ;D

argent

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 12:16:09 am »
Thank you very much for your reply, Gone Fabian! I am doing Level 5 but I keep rereading the entire TROM manual through. Level 4 was fairly clear to me in how it worked, but Level 5 continues to make me think "Huh!" In case you are inspired to go back and look for some insight for me, I can say it seems I am to print out the chart and carry it around with me and go round and round...but round and round doing what? Is it like Level Four in that I just wait for what arises? There are blanks in the chart...am I supposed to fill those in? The wording in TROM is so precise that it's easy to feel stumped, when perhaps all I need is a new perspective and I would love if you have one for me. :)

If I may, what level are you doing right now? I would love to hear anything you would like to share regarding your experience with TROM to date...I found it in a sideways manner and on one hand, I'm surprised it's not more popular, but on the other, it can be difficult to decipher, so there I have it. :)

Gone Fabian

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 05:40:22 pm »
I am doing Level 3.

So, it looks like nobody else wanted to give you their opinions on Level 5...
You can have my viewpoint, but first I have a question  :)

Do you have a background in THAT "church" ?
It is easier for me to explain my views when I know where you are coming from.

argent

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 09:10:56 pm »
Sent you PM! Thank you! :)

Cory

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 05:40:07 pm »
Hey Argent, welcome to the forum!

Bringing something into existence is a lot like a genie. Make a wish and it appears before your eyes. Essentially it means to create a mental picture of something, anything. It's a practice of your natural ability to create, rather than be created.

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argent

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 08:45:13 am »
Quote
Bringing something into existence is a lot like a genie. Make a wish and it appears before your eyes. Essentially it means to create a mental picture of something, anything. It's a practice of your natural ability to create, rather than be created.

Hi Cory -- thank you! That's an excellent pointer. I just created a mental picture of the TROM manual with explanations like this added by forum members...a kind of TROM Wikipedia! For posterity...

Karalee

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2019, 09:15:01 pm »
forgive me for being repetitive, and regarding the running of RI, my latest practice is to look at my collection of photos on my hard drive and one by one put them all around me, visualizing the object or scene all around me as best I can.  This always initially produces yawns or some indication of released energy, and then the mind goes quiet and calm and then I have different ways that I create "another". It could be someone I already know or it could be a generic person, such as a cake baker or a Japanese gardener, etc.

If it is a person I already know I try to visualize all around me something that I think I know they would like to create themselves. Sometimes it is something I want them to create (for my pleasure).


guest54

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 01:17:11 pm »
If you want a good idea of how level five is run, read my series in "Read TROM here", TROM for non-Scientologists and toward the end of it I have a copy and paste from one of Dennis' books that explicitly tells you EXACTLY how to run level 5a.

TromFan

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Re: Questions about TROM
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2019, 10:37:33 pm »
The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.

How to Run Level 5A

"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be present time physical universe space. It can be past physical universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of "Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must Know" postulate.

Postulate Failure Chart
 
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them, timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's "Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between 1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known" against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known" into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A.  He now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and "Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."