Arcadia Power

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91
Other technology about the mind / Re: What to do after TROM
« Last post by TromFan on July 03, 2019, 03:01:05 pm »
Though I am probably far from finishing the program,  I will say that instead of my mind just "vanishing" and I have no thoughts at all, I find that instead my thoughts are of what I wish to accomplish.  This is a far cry from what the mind used to be for me---  arguing with people in the past, focusing on problems, etc.

If you don't have purpose, I believe one will just attract problems to keep life interesting.  Good point.
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Other technology about the mind / What to do after TROM
« Last post by Peter McLaughlin on July 03, 2019, 12:02:02 pm »
You will find that as you progress with TROM you arrive at a state of just Beingness. Happy but with nothing left to do.  This is ok but most of us will get bored with doing nothing and will create some problem to have.

I suggest that you instead have a plan for what to do with the rest of your life. You need a worthwhile purpose or goal to work toward.

Listen to this Youtube talk by Jordan Peterson about his self-authoring program and you will know what i am talking about.

https://youtu.be/DR2rYCxT0lg

Keep on TROMing
Pete McLaughlin

93
General Discussion / Re: What exactly is a game?
« Last post by TromFan on July 02, 2019, 03:00:53 am »
Scientology says life is a game.  It's in Fundamentals of Thought.

Though Dennis does talk a ton about games, he never just says 'life is a game" outright.  Not that I can remember anywhere, and I have read all the stuff twice.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Games are contests in conviction.  You convince your opponent of your postulate.

TROM is not the first place I found this datum.  In James P Carse's Finite and Infinite Games he says a (finite) game is over when everyone has agreed who the winner is.  It's a similar concept.
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General Discussion / Re: Problem with the sentence
« Last post by TromFan on July 02, 2019, 02:48:36 am »
Hi Cory,

copied and pasted from the original TROM a Games Manual:

"Purpose, Intention, Goal and Postulate can be regarded as synonyms."
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Level four TROM / IMPORTANT Timebreaking emotions/sensations on level four
« Last post by TromFan on June 29, 2019, 10:55:40 pm »
Copied and pasted from "The Philosophy of TROM" from the chapter "A Tape of TROM's Level 5"

Hello Judith this is Dennis Stephens here and I'd like to thank you for the very welcome tape I received today which is the 10th of November 1994.
It's a very hot day here in the early summer in Brisbane today, although from the very welcome thumbnail sketch of your life you sent me and with your background in Zimbabwe, Rhodesia and in South Africa and also in the outback of the Kalahari Desert, have I got the word right Numidia? Yes, that Desert in southwest Africa. You would be no stranger to heat would you? No stranger to heat at all. So you'd probably be quite at home here in Brisbane on a day like today.
Yes I'm not surprised to hear Judith that there's very little charge on your case on levels 2 and 3 of TROM after all the excellent auditing you've had from Leonard.
Leonard's an old hand at this game, he's been at the game of auditing for many years.
I remember him way back. He was one of my students on course way back in the 1950's, we've known each other many years Leonard and he's a very, very fine auditor, and a very careful, very thoughtful technician is Leonard, so you've been in good hands and it's proven itself by the fact that you sailed through levels 2 and 3 of TROM.
The phenomenon you report at level 4 of TROM of getting some bodily feelings and bodily sensations and so forth which it's not easy to pinpoint the source of; is not at all uncommon. I had this phenomenon myself.
When you get to level 5 you will discover the source of them. They show up at level 4 but you often, at level 4, you don't find the source of them. If you do very carefully timebreak each and every one of these bodily sensations that turn up at level 4 you would find that you will be able to timebreak them back out of existence again. There's no need to walk around with these body feelings. You can timebreak them quite comfortably.
Timebreak a Body Sensation
You simply would experience the feeling in the body then become simultaneously aware of the feeling and aware of the rest of the universe around you in present time and you would find the feeling would then come up to a peak and then would slowly fade out. It would go through the same cycle as anything else that was being timebroken. So you could always get rid of these unknown and unwelcome feelings that show up at level 4 by timebreaking the sensation, timebreaking the feeling.
96
Level three TROM / Make sure to do this on level three
« Last post by TromFan on June 29, 2019, 10:52:36 pm »
If you are doing level three, and the only data you have on it is in the original TROM manual, please make sure you know the following datum!

In the original TROM writeup Dennis says:

"a) Select a past scene. Become simultaneously aware of the scene and PT around you.

Don’t try and Timebreak the entire scene at once. Take it a bit at a time. Continue to do this until the past scene ‘fades’ - i.e. begins to ‘fall away’ in intensity compared to present time.

b) Select a new past scene, and repeat a).

Continue until you are willing and able to Timebreak all your known past.
This exercise will take many hours, joyful hours, and you are gaining all the way. "


But if you read this (copied and pasted from the TROM therapy manual in the section "Verifying Level 3 Completion) Dennis clarifies what he means by "bits at a time"

You should get in there; get some of the emotions in them and timebreak the emotions out. Get some of the sensations in those incidents and timebreak the sensations. Timebreak the postulates. Get in there, get everything in that incident, you know, get the lot.
Remember I said in the write up, do it on a gradient scale, take it a bit at a time. Get the important bits out then get the rest of it out. 
97
Level five TROM / EXACTLY how to start doing level five
« Last post by TromFan on June 29, 2019, 10:39:47 pm »
I have posted this in several areas of the forum, but I am also going to put it here where it is most relevant, as this ONE part of Dennis' writings makes it most clear what to do when you get to level five.

The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.

How to Run Level 5A

"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be present time physical universe space. It can be past physical universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of "Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must Know" postulate.

Postulate Failure Chart
 
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them, timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's "Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between 1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known" against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known" into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A.  He now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and "Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."
98
General Discussion / Re: Questions about TROM
« Last post by TromFan on June 29, 2019, 10:37:33 pm »
The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can download from Tromhelp.com ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.

How to Run Level 5A

"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be present time physical universe space. It can be past physical universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of "Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must Know" postulate.

Postulate Failure Chart
 
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them, timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's "Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between 1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known" against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known" into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A.  He now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and "Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."
99
General Discussion / Re: Who is using trom these days ?
« Last post by TromFan on June 29, 2019, 10:35:29 pm »
I looked over my response and edited it a bit because this is what I do when creating in the class of not-self.

When I create in the class of self, I just put something there, acknowledge I did it and move on.
100
General Discussion / Re: Postulate Failure Chart
« Last post by TromFan on June 16, 2019, 12:32:31 pm »
He does mention there is a symmetry to the chart.  Also, if you read Insanity Point and really get it, it becomes terribly obvious too.  But for me, I had to read that book twice and then actually perform level five with the Insanity Point data to get that sort of clarity.

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