Author Topic: EXACTLY how to start doing level five  (Read 61 times)


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EXACTLY how to start doing level five
« on: June 29, 2019, 10:39:47 pm »
I have posted this in several areas of the forum, but I am also going to put it here where it is most relevant, as this ONE part of Dennis' writings makes it most clear what to do when you get to level five.

The very last chapter of the book TROM a Games Manual you can download from ..
I am copying and pasting here for your convenience.

How to Run Level 5A

"[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you]
"I will go through the chart as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. I'm starting at Level 1a and the goal-package I'm using is the basic “To Be Known” goal package. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak all the day's activities and also I would make sure the Levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't, of course, attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've timebroken the day's activities.
"Ok, here goes. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You are not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. It doesn't have to be present time physical universe space. It can be past physical universe time space.
"So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the Other's postulate "Must be Known". The postulate is "Must be Known" and that is in the class of not-self.
Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
"The important thing is that it is a "Must be Known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self.
That is important. You must be certain that it's in the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self.
So you put up that postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self.
You then create the postulate "Must Know" in the class of self.
If you go over to column 7 on the chart you see that the level here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know something. You've bought not-self's pan determined postulate of "Must Know". Get that?
Doesn't matter what you are forced to know, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must be Known" over that way in the class of not-self and then get yourself here with the postulate "Must Know".
"Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right here where you are, right where you are with the "Must Know" postulate.

Postulate Failure Chart
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "Must know" postulate.
Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up. Your whole situation is a cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again.
"You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them, timebreak them out of existence and put the postulates back up again.
And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "Must be Known" in the class of not-self over that way while you're sitting here with "Must Know". And you got the idea that you're being “Forced to Know.”
That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quietened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level.
You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from 1A to level 1B.
"Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "Must Know" to "Mustn't Know".
The postulate "Must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "Must be Known" in the class of not-self and "Mustn't Know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation.
So you have your "Mustn't Know" and your opposing not-self's "Must be Known" with your pan determined postulate "Mustn't be Know". Trying to get not-self to change his postulate from "Must be Known to "Mustn't be Known" but he's in the stronger position forcing his pan determined postulate of "Must Know" right up against your "Mustn't be Known".
So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
"And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "Must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "Mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quieted down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
"Now this involves a definite change, you're going from receipt now to origin. That is a big change that happens there between 1B and 2A.
When we go from 1B to 2A you start off by feeling yourself at Origin point. You start off by saying, well, I'm in "Mustn't know" pushing "Mustn't be Known" across to the other person, to the "Must be Known" there.
In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt at level 2A you're the originator "Mustn't know" and you driving your pan determined "Mustn't be Known" against his "Must be Known" Self Determined postulate.
In other words, you're begining to get at him. So you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "Mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "Must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point of your PD postulate "Mustn't be known".
"But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole Level 2A. Then you would go to Level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent.
You still stay in your "Mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your PD "Mustn't be known" postulate at level 2B and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "Must be Known" into "Mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your PD postulate. So he's driven from the "Must be known" he held at level 2A.  He now goes into "Mustn't be know" at the receipt point there.
"So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1A with "Must be known" and "Must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've gone back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed.
We are now at 2B. At 2B we have "Mustn't Know" - "Mustn't be known" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "Mustn't be Known" is at the receipt point.
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates.
What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever shows up. You simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."

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Re: EXACTLY how to start doing level five
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 05:32:12 pm »
you start L5 at L2 or L1 if you want.

When I did L2 , i graduated naturally to L3 and from 3 , same deal . I couldn't help but to graduate to L4 and from 4 I went to L5

You must use the levels . Doing them correctly with bring you higher and higher up to L5. There is no level 6. Its all free space above level 5 .  The completion of L5 is the start of true reality .


It doesn't end at level 5 nor at OT8

In fact they are just the beginning of a personal journey. A journey that leads to  "there " as Dennis puts it . Dennis said he's never met a L5 completion . He didn't hang around long enough to know me .

I started using the levels in 1997 . I bought two copies of trom from Flemming and got straight to work on it straight away .

The leves took me in a direction I had no idea I would be going to.

When you complete L5 there will be absolutely no doubts or reservations . I feel more confident today than when I first completed the level .

Dennis said you'd be getting a glimpse of Nirvana before completing L5 or something to that effect. But even When I first completed trom , I knew I was there and never going back .

You can't go back you know so make sure you want to go all the way first .

You'll know things that may be very painful to know as well as knowing things that are very pleasurable to know . You won't have a choice in the matter. It's gonna sting some days and other days .... Pure Nirvana.

You'll know the creator very very well . Dennis doesn't mention the creator nor any of his cognitions.

LOL cognitions will be the norm. You don't stop after L 5 . In fact they just get bigger and better as you take a look around , after completing L 5.

We are not alone after L5 but you'll still want to take others with you nonetheless. 

You can certainly be alone if you choose.

I won't be able to answer all questions because some of us just aren't there yet to fully understand. Too much information can do harm and hinder , too little will also be of little use.  It's always depends or the 2 parties who are trying to communicate no matter what  level you've completed .

I can only tell you where it's taken me and I'm not open to generalised questions.
I will say there is only one place to go and that place is oneness with all life and all things in life and the creator himself ( no gender )

Happy to help and not interested in any kind of overwhelms. Just keep the questions specific . Or no questions at all is just as good too .

I'll try to use the games manual as a reference.

The sky is much much higher than we think but it does have a ceiling. WE can go beyond the ceiling of L5. This is where you will find our creator and the true meaning of life and oneness.

My goal is to take as many with me to talk about all the interesting things along the way as I can before I go . Not just someone. But don't be disappointed if I refer you back to the games manual .   I never would have made it to  " there  "  without it and I doubt you will either .

Good luck .

The Torus ( author )
TROM user since 1997.
Former COS class 4 org Examiner post. 
Sunshine RD Completion.
DCSI and comm course Completions.
Purification RD Comp.
Staff status 2 and emeter course Completions
since 1984. BLOWN and now an SP with $15k of freeloader debt. LOL, felt good too.
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